The Abominable Snowmen episode 6 discussion:
P: Yay! The frozen no snow land waste land is done. Back to warmer weather.
R: <sarcastically> I take it you liked this episode very, very much.
P: No, I liked it. It seemed to wrap up very cleanly.
K: No really warmer weather…
H: They did say at the end, “Doctor Who and the Ice Warriors” although you don’t know what the Ice Warriors are.
K: But they have ice in the name. Not likely to be warmer there. On the place. Where the ice is.
Sp: Padmawhatshis name. Jamie’s saying what we’re all thinking. Or at least all misspelling.
H: To be fair, I don’t know if Frazer Hines ad-libbed that, or if it was really in the script.
K: I think it was in the script. It was more in character that Jamie wouldn’t be able to say or remember the full crazy name.
H: If I ever get my hands on the shooting script we can find out.
R: <Bad Scottish accent> Aye, I can barely remember how to draw me sounds!
H: Have we seen evidence that Jamie can read or write? I feel like we have.
P: I think we have. I think he read something at the airport.
H: He read signs.
P: But he was holding the newspaper upside down.
R: But he has not been blow out of an airlock yet.
Sp: Yet. Give it time.
H: You guys will never, ever let that go.
R: Dude, never let anyone on board a spaceship who can’t understand the fundamental concept of… a key!
K: Poor Katarina.
R: I’m sorry, but her fate was foreordained from that point. Something was going to get her. The zero-G toilet. The replicator. She was going to end, and it was not going to be pretty. “What’s this leg doing in the Transmat?”
Sp: But you know what is going to be pretty? Victoria! In this episode, the one we watched tonight.
K: Thank you!
Sp: She was really pretty… sort of repeating a mantra that she sort of just learned off screen that didn’t seem to help her do much.
P: Well, she didn’t immediately fall hypnotized.
R: I think it was all a black satire of the Beatles spiritual existence at the time.
H: It was about the right time period, it’s true.
Sp: Rather violent episode, was it not?
R: Judo-chop! Apparently those monks all have serious osteoporosis. One shot to the back of the neck and it’s all over. Captain Kirk couldn’t have done it better. There, I said it.
Sp: Captain Kirk wouldn’t have needed a monk staff.
<Discussion of Songsten’s actual attack on Krisong… did he hit him with Krisong’s stick or his hand? The world may never know…>
Sp: Anyhoo… dead monk. And in a rather violent way. With lots of mourning over him, and mustache twirling by the Great Intelligence.
H: It’s actually way less violent than it could have been. This is one of the few Doctor Who stories where something was filmed that the producer deemed to be too violent, and decided it couldn’t be used.
Sp: What, the Great Intelligence just said “Finish him!” and ripped out his spinal column?
H: No. As part of the filming at the film studio, when they did some of the funky studio shots, they actually filming a special effect of Padmasambava’s face melting, which was supposed to take place when he was being destroyed. But Peter Bryant decided it was too horrific and that it wouldn’t be used. But it was one of the first thing that was filmed, so they had plenty of time to do something else in it’s place. So it was a censor clip that we’ll never see.
Sp: Unless they just decide to go to the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark and pretend it was the end of him.
R: Speaking of Palagrasore…
H: Padamawhothereinthewhatnow?
R: I get what they were trying to do with the creepy ululation, but that was creepy in a whole other unintended way.
K: Huh?
R: The point at which the Great Intelligence relinquishes control and Pantsonmycrowbar… I guess it was supposed to be sighing with relief, “Why do you make me doooo this…”
H: The idea of him finally being released from the influence… I thought it was really effective.
R: No, the earlier bit when he was fighting it for a little bit. And he makes this really weird “ahh… arhg… ahh…” it was like “Are you okay?”
Sp: Which works.
R: It didn’t for me. ‘Nuff said. And I will say one more thing that everyone will disagree with…
Sp: No you won’t.
P: I disagree on principle.
R: That age makeup looked like silly putty.
K: I agree!
Sp: It worked for me.
H: I thought it was fine.
Sp: It expressed the combination of extreme age and extreme alien goo, which seemed to be spouting up all over the place in this episode.
K: No. It looked like a bad rubber mask was sort of applied to his face.. but terribly positioned around his mouth.. poorly applied make up. I will point out though that Ronelyn, Cz, and I have been watching a weekly competitive makeup show on “Syfy!” that has taught us a lot about well designed makeup. So are probably pretty critical.
R: Also, we have EYES! Packahandlebar there looked like you could roll his face on a newspaper there and pickup the Sunday funnies!
Sp: Which worked!
H: I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.
R: As I said at the outset.
H: I think we had some very distinctly selected shots too. Not all of them were necessarily from part of the episode we were seeing.
R: So they picked the worst shots?
H: They picked the only shots they had. As will a lot of these recons, it’s sometimes hard to tell.
Sp: I don’t think the makeup stuck out nearly as much as the minorly Scooby Doo ending of giving the Yeti hunter the real Yeti to hunt at the end of the episode. How flipping corny was that?
R: I would like to point out that THIS was the origin of the that trope. So the MacGyver episode that I know you’re thinking about (yes, in fact there is a MacGyver episode where he is stalked by robot Bigfoots)…
H: Bigfeet!
R: Shut up! … it is actually derived from this one. So like Casablanca it’s not corny, because this is the first one.
H: As someone who’s never seen an entire episode of MacGyver, I’ll just have to believe you.
Sp: And thus “The MacGyver Project” was born!
K: No! But seriously, is this REALLY the origin of the trope?
H: Probably not.
R: But it’s been done damn few times on TV at this point.
H: Apparently the “real” Yeti did look differently than the robot costume Yetis.
R: Also, I loved the looks from the Doctor. Again, it’s just the images they happen to have.
<Ronelyn and Spoo briefly have an “impression off” of the various stills>
R: But he manages to look very intelligent and determined and powerful. And it’s all with just his face. Also, also, Travers really came into his own.
H: Yeah, you were all convinced his was going to die. I was laughing to myself because you were all totally convinced.
Sp: At least not until he gets ripped in two by the real Yeti.
R: It’s true, we’ve never heard about anyone finding a real Yeti. In fact, I wrote down, at the middle of this episode “Travers will die” in my notes.
H: Because Ronelyn takes notes.
R: How else am I going to remember all of the crazy?
Sp: Be fair. You also wrote down “The phone call was coming from inside the Monastery” in your notes last week.
R: Dude, that’s comedy gold. You have to write down those kind of things.
H: Anyway…
R: I was pleasantly surprised that A) He didn’t die and B) He continued to be “cool Travers of adventure!” instead of “Sniveling Travers of waxy mustache twisting.” He was cool, and he made very reasonable decisions under the circumstances.
H: “This is what I saw. This is what I think is wrong. The Doctor is not right. We’ve gotta take car of this.”
R: And he chose the right point in the episode to shoot someone with a gun.
H: It didn’t work, but it was the right point.
R: So I was really happy about that. I actually wish that had been the Travers from the very beginning.
H: He’d recovered from the shock and the blow on the head from earlier in the story.
R: A blow to the head does not make you a jerk.
Cz: I have something to say. Jamie… the Doctor was like “No, I don’t have a plan.” and Jamie was like “What?!?” like he’d never heard this before.
R: “You don’t have a plan? Och… it must be Wednesday.”
H: Okay. So this is the last episode of the story. And I know earlier some of you were having issues with the content and the pace.
Sp: Some of us? Issues? Pace?
H: And I said… wait and see how it all hangs together.
K: So, do you think the ending is still good given seeing it “one episode a week” pace?
H: I think suspense and tension were done quite well. A lot of the parts that you guys felt were slow I thought built to the end. I’m curious to see whether you guys feel that looking at the story as a whole the earlier episodes stood up well to build to the climax?
Sp: Alright. My first thought is to answer your question in sort of a “meta” way. In order for today’s episode to work, and it did work, you needed a emotional attachment to Krisong, to the Doctor and his companions, to a lesser extent the monks in general, and to the plight of Pandabear or whatever his name is.
K: And to Thomni.
Sp: Yeah, sure. And all of that had been established by now. So, Krisong’s death was really effective. And fighting the Great Intelligence came at a great cost, or at least helped a 200 year old suffering monk. The monks in general were saved. There was an overall sense of danger. This episode specifically really worked. It think it still would have worked minus about 2/3 to 1 ½ of the middle bits of the episodes that made the middle of the arc. This was six episodes that might have been easily done in four, and still give you the sense of suspense and building menace and dread and getting to know all of the monks and all of that.
R & K: <Both nod vigorously>
H: So, do you agree Photobug.
P: <Photobug reads what was just written in the discussion> I think this could have gone faster, but I also think it held together at the speed it went. If you flipped that point around, I think the producer successfully stretched this story into six episodes and thus saving money on scripts and sets and crap like that.
R: Wow, he even talked like a BBC executive.
Sp: <like BBC executive> “Look, it’s either this or the bees again. And I can’t find the bee costumes!”
H: I wonder, Spoo, if you could have fit in all of the relationships that you wanted in four episodes. Maybe in five, but could you have fit it all into four? Especially with the monks, and especially Krisong. If you remember in episode one we thought he was the villain. He had a definite character arc as far as our perception of him goes. I’m not saying I’m absolutely right… but I don’t think four episodes would have given us enough time to have the emotional bond that you said that we needed.
Sp: I see where you’re coming from. I’m no writer or story editor, but I feel like there’s little pieces of pretty much every arc, possibly a little more from the initial setup of the Great Intelligence and the initial discovery that the Yetis were robots that could be snipped out. There’s probably a bit of nip and tuck that could happen to pretty much every story line…
P: And every Yeti…
Sp: Hey, hey, hey! They’re plus sizes and they’re beautiful! … and you could get it into four.
R & K: <nods>
R: You could get five minutes back just from Pandasarntabear speaking a little faster in each of his scenes.
K: <laugh>
H: So, it didn’t add atmosphere for you at all then?
R: Atmosphere is like cinnamon…
Sp: A really bad stripper name?
R: Moving on… a little goes a long way, and with too much you end up gagging on You Tube.
R & Sp: This is all coming back to the stripper name then.
R: So anyway, I think I made my point.
H: Whatever that was.
Sp: And whatever it was… you made it well.
<general laughter>
H: I think we might be at final thoughts… <takes breath> but I’m not sure.
<more laughter>
Cz: Is it over?
P: Is what over?
Cz: Yetis?
P: Maybe… Ice planet next.
Cz: Is there actually going to be ICE?
<laughter>
P: One hopes.
R: We might even get to crawl over a big white, creaky, squeaky bridge.
R & H: Made of styroice.
H: Photobug, final thought?
P: Awwwwe-some.
H: Ah, you learn the lessons of MiniSpoo well, Grasshopper.
P: I learn from the Master who is 1/5th my age.
Sp: I feel like there should be more to say about the Doctor. Historian, give me a prompt here.
H: \>
Sp: No! No! No! Like tell me a thing.
K: Can’t see to type! Laughing to hard! At the voices in my head! Okay…
H: Something we haven’t talked about is the cool exchange between the Doctor and Victoria. Victoria says “I supposed you’ll be sending me off with the monks” and the Doctor replies “I think that would be wise.” Victoria says “Well, I’m not going.” and the Doctor replies “No, I didn’t think you would.” That is just cool. That’s a cool thing about the Doctor right there and how he respects Victoria. How’s that Spoo?
R: <Doctor voice> “Yes, I have heard from the monks how well that works out.” <Doctor doing Victoria voice> “Yes, I’ll just hide inside this closet until I decide to lie to you. Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?”
H: Follow that!
Sp: I bow in the presence of the master! <Great Intelligence evil hissy voice> “Yes, I do!” Face melts, big glow, putty. Rocket sounds!
R & Sp: Yyyyou guyyyyz!
Sp: I’m done.
H: Alright. Ronelyn, let’s see what you’ve got.
R: Haven’t I done enough for you? Fine. “We must be careful. He may have ‘supernormal powers.’”
H: I have a potential explanation for that. They probably didn’t want to use the world supernatural, and supernormal was a term at that point for ESP and stuff. It’s Doctor Who and “magic” has a scientific explanation. Supernormal was used to describe UFOs and other similar things in late 60’s / early 70’s.
K: I actually appreciated the supernormal rather than supernatural line myself.
H: I’m not denying it’s a stupid term. But it did exist.
K: I’m laughing too hard to have room for a final thought. I think this is the first time that I have been laughing so hard during Doctor Who that I have been brought to tears.
H: During the discussion, not the episode. The discussion!
K: Yes. The discussion.
R: There was nothing funny about the episode. And how did we go an entire story arc without actually saying “Yeti balls?”
H: That’s okay. I’m fine with it.
MS: <from under table> Yyyyyeti balls!
H: That’s the problem.
MS: <sings> I’m under the table!
R: This episode has destroyed us all!
MS: Yay! Destruction.
K: I have no room for a final thought.
H: I don’t know if I do either.
R: Just get back in the TARDIS!
Sp: I don’t care what you smell!
P: Push the random button and go!
H: Seriously though… I think… I think this story is a great representation at this point in the Troughton era. We’re still in a weird transitional point between how they told stories in the first few seasons and how they’re moving the direction of how they’ll be telling stories in the next few seasons. On the one hand this is a classic “base under siege” setup. On the other hand, it’s got the deliberate pacing of one of the early Hartnell stories. So it’s just an interesting script. I think it’s very well written. From the one episode we have it’s pretty well directed. And the acting is actually quite good. It’s not everybody’s cup of tea, clearly. But I think it’s just pretty good.
Sp: I do see what you mean about the transitional bit. Because once you phrase it that way, I do notice that the story structure goes back and forth between “Doctor boldly strides in and solves things” and “There’s a whole world here that was here before the Doctor and will go on after him and most of the non-Doctor character are doing the heavy discovering and growing and dying and fixing and he’s there to go ‘oh, oh, oh my! Can we go?’”
R: <Doctor voice> “Yes, I’m afraid that’s going to leave a mark.”
H: I don’t think it’s a perfect description. But it’s certainly an interesting way to look at an interesting story. I love this season of Doctor Who.
