The Underwater Menace episode 2 discussion:
M: Interesting that Damon’s assistant got a higher billing than Ben and Jamie.
Sc: Maybe it’s some kind of union rule?
H: I can totally understand why being able to see the actual episode gave people the idea to reassess this story. I’ve seen a clip of one scene from this episode, and the moving pictures version was so much better and conveyed so much more than you can get from the soundtrack and telesnaps.
M: That being said, I thought this was a good episode.
P: Plot-wise it had a nice trajectory.
H: If you guys are interested the scene is where the Doctor and Zaroff talk about the destruction of the world.
K: Probably the silliest scene, “Bang bang bang”
<group pauses to watch scene on You Tube>
H: See, it actually works. Everyone dismisses this as basically a goofy story, but I can see how actually getting to see it might give a different perspective. And I’m looking forward to seeing episode 2 next year.
R: I do have to agree, we get a much better sense that Zaroff is…
H: Kookoo?
R: A brilliant guy that is mad as a sack of otters.
K: Not made as a hatter that Atlantians wouldn’t know what a hatter is?
M: They have hats. Tentacled hats. The whole him coming up from behind a fish tank. It reminds us how they did really cool stuff that we don’t get to see.
H: And again, Troughton is brilliant. Very nice, nuanced performance that is barely conveyed by the soundtrack.
R: He looks at Zaroff and is like “I’m not going to push you too hard, because you might crack. And when that happens it might be bad.”
H: Which makes the cliff hanger make more sense. Having seen Zaroff’s madness him just walking in at the end when the leader gives the Doctor up to Zaroff is much more menacing.
E: I have to admit to a bit of a jaw drop there, seeing him walk in.
R: <in accent> “Mr. Flibble is very cross!”
K: I noticed how Polly’s rescuer looked a bit like Barbara in Aztec gear, from way back when.
P: Yeah. I thought the dot on her forehead was not round, but had kind of a clover shape to it, which I thought was kind of cool. I also thought that she had kind of a 1920’s look, which added to the appeal of the show because I’ve played through Bioshock.
H: I see where you’re getting at. The short hair and the skullcap was a little flappery.
M: So the main thing I noticed about Polly’s rescue / escape was the Doctor’s least bit or concern. He had absolute confidence that his companions would escape, and low and behold they all did. This is the episode where everyone escaped. Even though the Doctor got captured again at the end.
P: It’s true. Although their first escape was suspect.
H: There’s a tremendous contrast in Polly’s character here and in the Highlanders. In the last story she was very strong, forceful, took action.
R: She had the crap scared out of her!
M: Did she actually get injected by something?
H: No, she didn’t. The lights went out before they could actually inject her and then they left to investigate.
P: Her struggle saved her.
R: They were probably just trying to find her insurance info. And the Doctor got to have a hat like that.
K: Even though he didn’t say it this week.
H: The guy starts to hand him a hat, and says “Would you wear this.” Then the Doctor starts to put it on and says “Would I!?” You could hear the excitement.
K: Yes, he clearly likes hats.
H: He likes dressing up.
<several “yes”s from the crowd>
M: Is this why there’s so much Doctor Who Cosplay?
R: The companions seemed remarkably competent this week. Polly kind of accepted, but I can excuse that.
E: Yes! Took the words out of my mouth.
P: First of all, why do you need a compass when you have very few choices in the mines to go?
R: To know which direction to know you’re being railroaded in.
M: What I got from it was that they were trying to convey the Journey to the Center of the Earth kind of thing… they’d didn’t want to get split up into different caverns sort of thing. Ben and Jamie and the guys exploring felt that way to me.
P: Second of all, lighting should be way more important than it is in this show. If you’re under the ocean, under rocks, or cave exploring you better have a lantern and not just a flash light. But this is a kids show.
M: The rocks glow.
K: Or the viewers wouldn’t be able to see the set or actors or anything without lights.
R: Yeah, they had a whole film crew lighting up the scene.
H: <with accent> “But wait, if you are filming us, who is filming you?”
<It all ends up a Monty Python joke eventually, doesn’t it?>
P: If they’re mining to go down, you kind of need a bunch of machinery that they don’t have. Maybe I’m being too much of a jerk here…
M: They’ve got plentiful cheap human labor because there are so many ship wrecks. I was like “wha?” How many ship wrecks are there?
P: This reminds me of the Infinite Improbability Drive on the Heart of Gold, with picking up random extra passengers.
K: So did anyone else think that Polly and her rescuer were going to kiss in that image they showed?
<Several folks agree with me. What a surprise!>
K: And boy, water boiled fast underground!
P: Yeah, the less pressure you’re under the fast it will boil. So it will be very hard to boil under here. But hey, physics.
Sc: Maybe the flame was very hot?
K: <I took notes this week> And where did Jamie hide the compass, under his kilt?
H: In his sporran.
R: So that’s what the kids are calling it these days.
P: It’s not a purse, ladies.
K: Yes, yes it is.
R: I still think women should be allowed to wear those.
M: Who stops them.
K: I used to wear a fanny pack all the time, basically the same thing. And we’re way going off topic.
P: In British slang that is wear a woman would be wearing it.
H: Annnyyyway, final thoughts?
Sc: I got nothin’.
E: Ronelyn stole my final thoughts! Other than that, I really, really liked this episode. I freaked out at the beginning though. I don’t like needles.
K: That was totally not the way an injection would actually be done. Where was the tourniquet?
R: They’re Atlantians. They don’t know medicine.
P: It’s not like they were going to kill the patient. Besides, they going to want to collect that insurance money.
H: And even if they do kill the patient, ship wrecks are plentiful.
R: Build a new life in the Underwater Colonies.
E: I can see the brochures now.
M: I liked it, basically. I thought it was pretty solid, despite this being a lampooned story, I thought the episode was pretty solid.
A: I liked the story. It had some really good genuine creepy moments at the very start and very end. I liked how the cliffhanger wasn’t a traditional one.
K: Two weeks in a row they had a false cliffhanger.
H: I wouldn’t consider Jamie needing to be pulled out a false cliffhanger because they didn’t show him fall.
R: It was more of a low sludgy slope hanger.
P: I can see where moving pictures would really help out this episode. Just the one example that we saw really brightened up my opinion of the show. I thought that the emotion of the story is really what’s carrying this show. You don’t have any fist fights, car chases so to speak. So the story speaks on the emotional impact of the characters, which I think is severely limited by the nature of the recon. There was also not much music or other…
R: Oh god, the drills!
H: And the “oh we know someone’s coming” because of the Dudley Simpson’s style music.
P: I wasn’t as attuned as the rest of you to that.
H: It’s very different than what we’ve heard previously on the show. But it’s something that we should get used to, as it comes up a lot later.
M: Yeah, definitely a Pertwee / Tom Baker era feel.
P: I think my favorite character is Ara (Polly’s rescuer).
M: Let’s face it, Polly’s girlfriend.
P: While we see many people acting out against the authorities, she seems to do the most convincing job to me.
H: I like that she’s essentially helping them because the Doctor was nice to her. I like that it’s simple, but works surprisingly well.
R: Bang, bang, bang! But on a more serious note, I was actually really surprised at how similar that speech is to the one that the Doctor inspires out of Davros years later. Where the Doctor asks Davros essentially the same question – if you could blow up the world would you do it? And it’s interesting, Davros has to think about it before he says “Yes.” Zaroff is just “boom boom bang, hehehe!”
H: It’s because it’s a different question. The difference is that the Doctor presents Davros with a hypothetical. This is Zaroff’s plan all along. I think that’s what separates the two as to effective writing. The Davros one was more effective.
R: Really? I kind of liked this… well I liked them both. But Zaroff is just classical just plan nuts. The cheese has officially fallen off his cracker. Davros is a different kind of nuts that more evil.
K: More deliberate.
R: Zaroff just wants to put fire crackers in all of his model planes and watch them blow up.
H: And that’s the thing. The conversation with Davros is about power. But with Zaroff it’s more a superficial conversation.
K: Poor Jamie. First the “high road, low road” crack. At his expense, because he didn’t actually know the phrase. And then… playing the part of Jamie this week… Jamie. In trouble for the first time, but certainly not the last.
R: We need someone in a skirt to fall into a hole. Polly did it last time. Jamie, I’m afraid it’s your turn.
P: That’s okay, it works like a wee parachute.
H: Well, prepare yourself for a shock everyone. I think all of you liked this episode more than I did.
<gasps!>
H: In all seriousness, um… I think I need moving pictures for this. I found parts of the episode, especially down in the mines, somewhat tedious. Not that it was a bad episode by any means. I’ve seen this story before and I actually like it, but it just didn’t more tremendously well for me. They just didn’t have enough telesnaps and the soundtrack just didn’t move me along. But I’m really thrilled that you guys liked it show much. And hopefully you guys will enjoy THE MOVING PICTURES NEXT WEEK.
<whoops of amazement and delight.>
