The Underwater Menace episode 4 discussion:
P: Did anyone see where Polly’s backbone went?
E: Not me. But clearly it’s not there.
K: I miss The Highlanders Polly.
M: Why the hell are the Atlantians living on the bottom of the ocean when they have an island above them that they could have been living on the whole time.
H: It’s true. In the first episode the Doctor and company are forced into an elevator and sent down. So I have done… I’ve refreshed my memory with some research with this story. I can explain a lot of the problems with it, if you are interested.
A: Yes please.
H: Okay. So a couple of things. These scripts were not originally going to be made by the producers. When they were originally turned in they were deemed to be too expensive. Another story feel through, the writer of that story got very sick and couldn’t do rewrites. So this story had to be rushed back into production. But because it had been developer earlier, there was no Jamie in it.
P: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
E: So they were like “woop, there’s a Jamie”
R: So then Polly would be dragging Ben along to the surface?
H: Not exactly. Basically Gerry Davis, the script editor, had to do pretty much a wholesale rewrite very quickly. He eliminated characters, combined characters, he had to do something with all three companions, which explained some of Polly’s issues. But even worse than all of that, this took so long, and with such and emergency, by the time they were making the actual episodes they were finishing the episodes a week before transmission. They lost their entire lead time.
K: I can’t imagine that happening today. They’d just delay broadcast.
H: So not only did they have minimal rehearsal time, because they didn’t have a script, but they had almost no production time, even less than usual. Which explains the directors inability to, for example, tamp down some of the overacting. And also explains in this episode Polly’s meltdown, because she probably only rehearsed it once.
A: That makes the fish people ballet all the more impressive.
H: Yeah, my next point is, with all the faults this story has, and there a lot of them, oh boy – it’s amazing what they managed to get done, out, and transmitted. And, as I recall, this one week of lead time carries over into the next few stories. That’s what I remember, but I’ll have to double check.
K: I remember reading about a lot of early Doctor Who have that issue. I thought it was more due to the sheer number of episodes they used to broadcast in a year, but this makes more sense.
H: I think this is actually the first time they cut it this close. Before now I believe the closest they cut it was 3 weeks before broadcast, but I could be misremembering.
P: I think that this story arc shows a lot of differences between episodes that we don’t normally see.
H: What do you mean by that?
P: The first episode had drama – you’re going to be killed, no actually you’re my prisoner. It was a psychological thriller more than anything. The third episode became very artistic and it was a visual representation of the beauty of the world, and also the horror of the world. And the fourth episode was sort of a chase scene.
K: I think you’re looking too deeply into a hurriedly written kids show.
H: No, he’s got a point that Doctor Who encompasses a lot of different styles of story telling.
P: But it was such a clean line for me – except maybe episode two. I also thought that Dr. Zaroff’s death
K: Was horrible?
P: Was predictable the moment they said “nothing could get through this gate.” Anytime they say something absolute…
R: You’re hanging a gun on the wall – if you hang a gun on the wall in act one you must fire it by act three.
M: Unless it’s a death trap, in which case there are so many guns you can’t fire them all.
H: But speaking of Zaroff’s death, how about the Doctor trying to pull away from Ben because he didn’t want Zaroff die. That comes a long way from thinking about killing a caveman with a rock because he wanted to get away. The Doctor has fully become the hero.
P: Classic hero syndrome. But the Doctor didn’t see Zaroff as just another person, but a colleague. Someone he knew of before he arrived.
H: But, I felt like the Doctor would have gone back to save him even if he hadn’t known who he was. He said “I can’t just leave him to die.”
A: It’s a hero thing. We can’t let the Doctor let people die on purpose.
M: I interpreted it that the Doctor felt he was just too smart to let him die. “I can’t let ZAROFF die.”
P: Didn’t the Doctor initiate the flooding.
M: Yes.
K: No.
H: Sort of.
M: He tweaked the reactor to make it flood. He clearly said “here’s my plan. I’m going to overload the reactor to make it flood.”
P: So then he was responsible for the deaths of all the characters who drowned.
M: But he sent an Irishman to warn them. The only one we know died for sure was the priest.
P: And Zaroff. And I suspect the mermaid people are just fine.
A: Fishpeople.
R: Fishpersons.
H: So, doing an informal body count for this story… five people. As far as we know, two guards, two priests, and Zaroff.
P: But there’s a lot of people not accounted for.
H: But, as far as we know, there’s a specific body count.
R: And the concussed technician in the reactor room that the Doctor sabotaged probably did not survive.
H: Fair enough.
M: The one that Ben karate chopped. Nah, he was fine. The Enterprise beamed him out right before it blew up.
P: I dunno, was his shirt red. We should talk more about Polly.
H: It wasn’t just Polly. It was a lousy story for all three of them.
R: Not entirely. There were some really nice bits of writing.
K: Actually, I thought most of the Jamie bits were fine. Particularly given that he was added in last minute.
H: A lot of his stuff was Ben’s stuff originally.
R: But specifically was not Ben’s stuff – his exchange with Polly about radiation. “What’s that glow in the rocks?” “It’s probably radiation.” “And what’s that?” “Ah, it’s too difficult to explain, but we probably better get out of here.” That was actually a really nice bit of writing that touched on Jamie’s ignorance in an entertaining, not dismissive way.
H: Okay.
R: I just thought Jamie did well throughout.
K: I thought so too. But Jamie’s cute.
M: So, what you’re saying is that he’s rugged, cute, and kind of dumb.
H: I’m keeping my mouth shut.
R: I wouldn’t say he’s dumb, he just lacks knowledge.
M: Going for the funny here. 😛
R: I also really want to complement the quality of the recon.
K: Yeah, last week’s was awesome.
R: Anyway. I loved the little touches of animation that they added.
M: Oh, censor clip of Zaroff drowning!
P: Animation wise the water / tears coming out of the mask…
E: That was creepy.
P: Nicely done, although a little cheesy.
K: Only cheesy because it went on overlong, I think.
H: I’ll have to see if they based that on a telesnap. I would bet, given that there wasn’t a change in the soundtrack, it would have gone on as precisely as long as they said.
A: When the temple collapsed there wasn’t a collapse sound effect.
E Yeah, I noticed that. I was a really quiet destruction.
R: Well, you gotta realize those paper mache boulders don’t make a lot of sound falling down.
H: Another point about the soundtrack, was how much less music there has been compared to every other episode in this story.
P: Maybe it had something to do with the speed in which they had to put out this episode.
K: I think it was maybe due to the unrelenting sound of flowing water that filled the entire second half. And now I have to pee.
A: Given that we didn’t hear music or the temple collapse, I wonder if the existing soundtrack is incomplete.
H: The soundtrack quality is actually pretty good, and they couldn’t record on multiple channels. So it was more likely due to the production squeeze.
A: It’s sort of the reverse of karaoke.
R: There was one speech that – it started off so great…
A: Yes, I know which one you mean.
R: And it ended… well, they’re talking about this tribute they are going to build to the Doctor since they think he’s dead. And all the grand things they can do for him. And the scientist starts this big long thing that the real tribute will be to rebuild their society. “No temples. A new Atlantis, without gods.” And then he goes a little of the rails. “And without fishpeople.”
M: He was responsible for creating the fish people, that was his life’s work. So that was significant.
H: I didn’t think he was going off the rails as at. The fish people were treated as slaves. So he’s saying a new society without gods and without slaves. That actually made sense in a script where a lot of things didn’t make sense.
R: There are just ways to say it that wouldn’t have popped the dramatic tension like a balloon.
M: Yeah. He could have said fishpeople slaves, or fish slave people, or slave people fish..
P: Or fishsticks.
M: Or anything other than just fishpeople.
H: I didn’t think it popped the dramatic tension much, but it was fair to read it that way. The whole speech was cheesy to me – it was a ball peen hammer on someone’s head. Which was the whole story, really.
P: But they were willing to have a society without a god, but were ready to nominate the Doctor as a hero, and he’d only been their two days.
K: It’s Doctor Who. Duh.
R: “The Doctor was here and we didn’t die! Yay! Let’s build him a statue and hope he doesn’t come back.”
K: <giggle>
H: Final thoughts on the story the Underwater Menace?
P: I think that the actors were probably uncomfortable given they were all given new frilly things to wear, except the Doctor, and the set was wet. Also, apparently they were rushed behind the scenes.
H: I’ve read that Troughton hates this story. Absolutely hated it. So I think you’ve got a point.
P: I also don’t recall him ad libbing these last two episodes, which I he always did before.
R: Maybe he just didn’t like the hats.
P: Or maybe the recon missed it.
H: Something the recon did miss, is apparently this episode, would have been if we could see it fully, the last appearance of that stupid stove pipe hat.
K: I saw it. In one of the final frames, Polly was wearing it. I suspect the Doctor put it on her head, or she snagged it from him, as they were climbing back down to the TARDIS. And they she threw it away because she has taste.
M: I dunno, she spent most of the episode wearing a snail on her head.
P: Maybe the hat exchange was the ad lib we were missing.
K: What is it with the Doctor and hats?
R: He is a very silly man.
P: I really think that this is one of those episodes that needed moving pictures.
H: I concur. There’s a rumor that, since they now have two of the four, that the remaining missing two might get animated for the DVD release. And the next story we are about the see, The Moonbase, also has only two of four missing. The Icewarriors too. But they’re all only rumors right now. Fans are hopeful that it will happen. Unfortunately well after we reach these various stories for The Project.
E: I actually – was I the only one that liked the description that Jamie gave of the TARDIS.
R: I liked it.
H: As tempting as it is to say yes, no you weren’t.
E: I just really liked it. It just sounded right, even if it got debunked 30 seconds later. “It feels safe in here.”
M: Another example of Chekov’s Gun.
H: Although he’s got a point that generally the TARDIS is home base, and it’s what’s outside the TARDIS that will kill them.
P: Oh, I think it’s the guy that’s next to the console. “Oh my god, they survived that planet. Let’s try this one. These humans are hardy and unbelievably lucky.”
<laughter>
A: I actually don’t have anything to add.
M: It’s all been said.
R: No it hasn’t!
M: Final thoughts on the story itself? What the heck, it was campy, it was fine. It wasn’t really that terrible. It had some good bits.
R: Excuse me while I damn you with faint praise.
M: It didn’t make one jot of sense, but I enjoyed some of the crazy Zaroff stuff.
H: “Nossink in za verld ken schtopp me now!!!”
R: “Blast, blast, blast!” No, no, no.
H: Your turn.
R: You would think, that for a scientist so smart, Zaroff would have gone out and found a pole, and got some leverage…
P: Right!
H: At that point, it’s pretty clear that he’s totally lost it. So, as smart as he is, I don’t think he would have thought of that.
R: Yes, he was too busy with “Mein mummy never loved me. All ze other mad scientists teased me for my lack of crazy hair.”
H: His hair was kind of crazy.
M: Yeah, he had the crazy hair.
R: “Ja, now!”
M: This entire story was actually a very subtle and clever allegory for the dual edged sword of positivism and nihilism. Thus Zaroff’s nihilistic willingness to destroy the entire world for the glory of science, and the other scientist at the end wanting to build a society with no gods. There was actually something here that you could write a High School essay about.
R: I take it all back. This episode is AWE-SOME!
H: Add in humanism, and you have Doctor Who in the 70’s in a nutshell.
K: I like Jamie. Polly annoyed me lots, grr. And Ben was in the episode. And the Doctor remains awesome. Now I’m starting to look forward to them ditching Ben and Polly. But why would Polly choose Ben over the awesome that is Jamie? Just because he doesn’t know karate. <eyeroll>
H: Well, he is a sailor.
K: Fishpeople were at least entertaining. As was Zaroff. But I’m also imagining the Silurians eventually eating them all. Or something.
H: Okay. I enjoyed a little script touch in this episode, which started with Ben’s comment, pointing to the Doctor “Well he’s not normal, is he.” And then the Doctor call back to it. “An excellent job Ben, but I don’t know about that not normal comment.” I thought that was an excellent touch in a script that wasn’t full of excellent touches.
K: Hehe. Touch.
P: Don’t forget the awesome “get the password” technique.
H: I really think that was the wittiest scripted sequence in this episode. But as for my final thoughts about the story – this is the second time that I have seen a reconstruction of it. And I actually enjoyed it the first time more than the second. It has nothing to do with the quality of the recon. I just didn’t find the story as enjoyable this time around.
K: Did you watch all four segments in a row?
H: I actually did the first time. This was a few years ago, well before the start of The Project.
K: So maybe this story holds up better if you watch it in all one chunk?
H: I think more that it was because it was Doctor Who I’d never seen before rather than anything else.
K: You are not helping our hypothesis. 😛
—
