The Tomb of the Cybermen episode 4 discussion:
R: <Cybervoice> “And now the Cyber national anthem!”
R&H: Du du du du beorm bu beorm!
<to actually hear it you just going to have to watch an early Cyberman story>
H: Something interesting that I’d forgotten was that this is the second story in a row that uses the same idea – the evil creatures seem to be entirely destroyed and then gives a reveal at the end that a portion of them survived. One of the Dalek’s eye stalks in the previous story, and the cybermat in this story. I had totally forgotten about that.
Sp: So the gun safety and gun handling in this episode was horrible!
H: Yes. As in all Doctor Who. And it wasn’t even the American doing it.
Sp: No, it was the Klieg. He gets to be his own nationality.
R: “I’m from the planet of Europe.”
Sp: But no, seriously. Let’s see. Sweeping his allies. Nudging and gesturing with a loaded gun. Leaving the gun on the table.
K: Yes!
Sp: Several times.
R: Dictatorial madmen do not have to do gun safety. Everyone around them is replaceable.
Sp: And then what’s her face…
H: Kaftan?
Sp: Sure. Incorrectly estimating the stopping power of her weapon. Argh!
M: But counterpoint – the special effects when she was shot were really good.
Sp: Yeah.
M: The streams of smoke coming out of the gun, and her being all smoking was top notch.
Sp: And the guns sound effect, and the way people smoked and bubbled.
H: With one exception, I think the effects and staging were excellent.
K: But Kaftan’s actual pratfall looked pretty sad.
M: One exception? “Who let all the shaving cream out of my accordion.”
H: I actually kind of liked that.
A: Me too.
H: What I was talking about was the floppy cyberdummy.
R: “Now I will escort you off the screen. Now I will pick you up.”
M: Cybercontroller love doll.
Sp: It’s a fair improvement over visible support wire from last week. Since we can compare and contrast between the two episodes directly.
R: It was a long time before the BBC realized that human dummies would be a lot more believable if their joints didn’t bend the wrong way.
Sp: Or bent at all. Rather than looking like they were attacking each other with inflatable sharks. But it does bring up the voice work for various kinds of attacked, dying, and distressed Cybermen were really good.
<generally agreement by all>
H: And the Cyberleader’s “We will survive” was really effective. It’s just a great line and sums up the Cyberman’s ethos so well.
R: I really liked Toberman’s last speech too. “The way is closed.”
Sp: “No one gets past Toberman.” Which really had the potential to be cheesy as hell, but it worked.
H: You could say that about the entire story. It had the potential to be cheesy as hell, but it really worked.
K: “Now I know you’re mad. I just wanted to make sure.”
H: Quintessential Troughton.
R: If you wanted any more proof that Matt Smith is channeling Troughton, there you go!
Sp: And I was only slightly faked out because I thought that that line was going to be the moment when the Cybermen attacked. And then he didn’t. So I was like “Oh, so the Doctor isn’t just stalling for time so the Cybermen comes up from behind and kills him.” And then the Doctor stalls some more, and THEN the Cyberman comes up and kills him. It’s nice staging.
K: That couldn’t have been the first “When I say run, run.” but it felt like a classic.
H: He honestly doesn’t say it that often, it was just one of those kind of things that stuck.
R: Klieg is the anti-Vulcan. I said it last week, and it’s still true. “If you don’t agree with how logical I am, I will shoot you in the face. Logic demands that you bow down and worship me!”
K: It amazes me how villainous these early villains are. Zaroff from the Underwater Menace, Mavic Chen (that we won’t stop talking about), beard guy from last story…
Sp: Maxtible. Maxtible fluffy.
K: Anyway, great villains. Even if they do get set pieces stuck in their teeth.
<brief discussion about awesome bad guys that we’ve seen during the TARDIS Project.>
R: I was kind of amazed that Kaftan didn’t grab the gun away from Klieg and frogmarch everyone out as soon as she saw Toberman looking all robotic and non-reactive. I mean, Toberman was the one person in the whole group that she cared about.
Sp: Eh.
M: It was a little odd that she didn’t seem to notice. She was blinded my loyalty. She really believed in Klieg’s plan.
H: For a logician, she really wasn’t all that smart.
R: Admittedly, she did come up with the whole “Now if Klieg have gun, Klieg could make fire” plan. And speaking of guns, go Victoria with the clever save!
H: Again! Second episode in a row.
M: She didn’t have much business in the episode, but what she did do was great. I thought she really conveyed well the idea that “I know how this is going to end. I’ve seen this before.”
K: She grown up a lot in just a few days.
Sp: And she put the American in his place too. “Thank goodness for your strength.”
H: After the wonderful condescension from him last episode it was perfect.
Sp: “Football! Beer! Rocket sound!” “Thank goodness for your strength.” “Um… umm… Poker? Light Beer. Scooters. I’ll be in the ship.”
<laughter>
Sp: One American cut down to size.
M: And his last exit had this limp-wristed gesture as if to say “Oh, let’s go. I’m sick of trying to be butch.”
H: Are we ready for final thoughts? And remember, it can be about the episode or the story as a whole.
E: I did enjoy the story as a whole. I think this is probably one of my favorite stories in Doctor Who of all time at this point…
H: Wow!
E: I really really liked how sassy the Doctor was. I guess I kind of have a fondness for characters who have a sharp wit like that. It was very well played, and I enjoyed that. But I still have to laugh about the shaving cream and accordion. I really wasn’t sure what was going on. But it meant something bad for them and good for us.
A: What E said. Except for I really liked the shaving cream scene.
R: So now everything’s become a referendum on the shaving cream and accordion.
A: I thought it was effective of reminding us there was a living being in there, and it was a painful death.
M: Well done! Enjoyable! Hooray this one survived!
A: Photobug wanted me to say <over text, as he’s not here this week> that he liked it.
K: Hopefully he’ll like the end when he finally gets to see it.
Sp: So, for starters, for posterity’s sake, I want to note that there was an awful lot of great conversation between the Project members comparing recent project Who to later Who and various themes and villains and everyone everyone reading this right now missed out. Nanny nanny boo boo.
K: And I just want to say that 1) I can only type so fast and 2) it had nothing to do with Tomb of the Cybermen. I was trying to stay on topic with what I was typing.
Sp: 1) Yes, I know. Figment of you imagination, remember. And 2) See 1.
K: LOL
Sp: Anyway, lots of bad deaths to go along with the bad gun handling this week.
H: You mean the pratfalls.
Sp: I mean Kaftan slowly lowering herself to her ground in death. I mean the staggering lead Cyberman. I mean him getting back up and dying the second time, just as staggering. Even electrified Toberman (kick-ass opening band for ELO, by the way) though his speech and door closing were noble and well done, he did have a little bit of that thrown at the wall and slowly sliding down sort of look to him.
M: Well how would you die after being electrocuted by a door? If it’s direct current you’d just slowly cook and collapse down.
R: You muscles would contract.
M: That’s alternating current.
<brief Tesla discussion>
Sp: And the party leader… let’s call him the survivor, was actually appropriately shell shocked by the end. Just a sort of “oh. Hey. Toberman’s gone too. Sure. Why not. Hahahaha! Rocket sound!” “That’s my line! Yous guys! I mean… guy. I’m so sorry.”
H: He was the only survivor of the scientific expedition, yes. All the other survivors were part of the rocket crew. The rocket guy who was shot survived.
R: “I spared him.” “You mean you missed him.” I was kind of amused that everybody was like “My god, you murdered him” and the guy was lying down on the ground twitching like “I’m lying right here.”
Sp: Oh, I did have a little case of the giggles over the Doctor and Jamie and the leader entering the tomb room. Little bit of three stooges there. “Hello!” “Hello!” “Hello!” <Cyberman voice> “Hel-lo-ah!” And this episode proved that reversing film is a neat effect. No matter how many times you do it.
<laughter>
Sp: Scene effective and cost effective.
R: “That’s the best kind of effective in the BBC.”
Sp: So yeah. So this was a fun one, even if it ended on a bit of a downer. “No. We’re not coming with you. We have our own… flying machine.”
R: “Flyin’ machine? Commahn Professor! You guys!”
H: You know he’s the new Mavic Chen, don’t you?
Sp: <‘Merican accent> “I would never do anything to stop that, Rocket sound!”
R: Well, for the serious part of my final thought I have to say…
Sp: Booga booga booga! <laughs so hard he falls down.>
R: I’m going to let you guys all chill…
<pause>
R: I felt really terrible for Toberman.
K: I think you’re supposed to.
R: It was when the Doctor comes to him and says “Don’t you see, they just want to use you.” And the immediate thought I had was “not like me. I just want you to go down to the basement and beat up things.”
M: That’s an M.O. for the Doctor. In particularly in stories we’ve been watching lately in the TARDIS project. Not an uncommon thing for him to do.
R: And for the non-serious part of my final thoughts…
Sp: I felt really terrible for Toberman… He brought a certain pathos to the episode. Brought together all of the… Okay, I’ll go back behind the couch.
R: This episode has taught me a new proverb. “Give a man a gun and he will kill for a day. Teach a man to gun…”
<laughter>
K: How do I follow that? Cz? E? What did the internet think of this episode? <a web camera was actually pointed at the TV for the show this week, for whatever reason>
E: Go Doctor!
Cz: “What? Who me? I don’t want to repeat anything.”
H: That’s okay, she can say whatever she wants.
R: Tell her someone already said that.
Cz: She’s thinking… She says “best Cyberman voices hands down. Seriously, I love their voices in that!”
E: I love these voices so much!
H: I agree. Cz, do you have anything for yourself to say?
Cz: Voices were very fun, yes. Oh, and liked the banter between the Doctor and skirt-boy.
K: You are all voices in my head. It doesn’t matter what I say. Everything here is what I say….
Seriously though, I do love this story. I think the tomb effect is a bit silly, but everything else is great.
R: <Cybervoice> “Remember to really close the Saran Wrap so that you don’t get freezer burn.”
H: So, before this story was found, when it was just and audio, it was famous. People called it one of the greatest Doctor Who stories and went on and on about it. When the video was found in Hong Kong and released there were a lot of people who saw it and were disappointed, thinking that what they saw wasn’t as good as what they pictured in their minds from the audio. Personally, I don’t get that. I think this story is incredible. I may not be the greatest Doctor Who story ever. But it’s better than good. The design of the story is fantastic. The writing is really strong. The acting is pretty uniformly good.
R: “You guys!”
H: Even so. Troughton and the regular cast shine in it.
R: Yeah, they’re just hitting on all cylinders.
H: It’s just a great story. And I’m glad that we could actually watch it. Let’s hope for finds sometime soon so that we can see more Troughton episodes.
M: It looked way more awesome as a kid when I read the novelization.
H: That is true. But then they almost all do.
