The Ice Warriors episode 3 discussion:
R:
P: I thought this episode was linear and short. It pretty much didn’t have any unusual curves in it.
R: They were pretty much just acting on the information gained in the previous two.
P: I don’t think we met any new characters…
K: Two new ice warriors.
R: Larry, Daryl, and Daryl. Sorry… QLAR, DURL, and DURL!
H: Something about this episode… last week I remember Ketina saying that she felt like there were a couple of different stories going on. One story in the base and one story with Penley and Storr. In this episode they brought those together into one story in a really cohesive way. I hope you liked it better because of that, Ketina.
K: Not sure. Alas, I’m too sick to really get a feel for this one. Cold meds make everything kind of long and trippy.
H: And yet she still types for us. Everybody, round of applause.
R:
K: Anyway, I think I did like this week’s better than last week. Yes. Although the ice warriors were still really hard to understand.
R: Better than last week, but still pretty hard.
H: It will probably be better when we actually have the sound track instead of a recording of a recording of the soundtrack. We haven’t seen the ice warriors speaking in an existing episode yet.
K: And I bet they’ll be even better on the DVD release later this year.
R: I gotta say, Storr’s goofy comment was my only unintentional laugh this week.
H: Really?
R: Yeah.
K: There was one dialog flub.
H: There was one bit that I found way funnier than Storr’s comment. Arden says “It seems like they’ve excavated a cave from the ice.” and the Doctor says how do you think they did that, or something to that effect, and Arden says “I think they used some kind of tool!” I have seen this story a couple of times, and that makes me laugh each time. I thought you would have picked that up.
R: I thought that was intentional.
SG: You think he was being a smart ass?
R: No
H: Speaking of which, how about that awesome character bit when Clent tries to console him? Clent is such a great character.
R: I think interesting is the word you’re looking for there.
H: I mean, he’s just got.. I don’t want to say layers, because I think that over states it.
R: But he’s human.
H: Kind of.
K: He’s not a villain. He’s clearly a doofus when it comes to science. But he’s… how do a phrase this… he’s trying to be a good manager. A good boss. But he’s still kind of a moron and wants to… win?
H: Here’s Clent’s deal. He’s headed several projects, apparently, and has never failed at any of them. That was established pretty early on. So he’s terrified of being the weak link, the one who fails. And everything springs from that. He tries to console Arden because he’s trying to be a good manager, but he’s not at it. Because his entire point is that he’s terrified of failure, and he wants to be the hero, but he’s not good at that either. But he’s actually got a good depth of character because of that.
R: He’s destructive not because he’s a villain, but because he’s a failure.
P: He’s out of his depth.
H: Exactly. I don’t think he’s a failure.
K: Not yet anyway. He might be one an episode from now.
R: He’s the kind of guy that you succeed ‘despite of’ rather than ‘because of’. I don’t get the feeling that he’s really terribly competent guy, I get the feeling he’s really good at presenting himself well and choosing the right projects.
K: So, a manager then.
R: In the creepy “Office Space” kind of sense, yes. But a good manager picks the right people, gets out of their way, and keeps other people out of their way. And promotes his team’s victories rather than his own. Clent, on the other hand, seems to be trying to involve himself in everything…
K: So a “micro-manager”
R: Fine example. In order to claim credit for things. I can imagine the photograph from his other successful projects where everybody else on the crew is kind of frowning and glaring at him, and he’s standing there with a winning smile on his face “We did it!”
H: That’s a way to read it. I’m feeling like that could be a little anachronistic at this point in that management styles have vastly changed since the 1960’s in terms of what good management is, and how involved with how things management are. And there’s at least one member of his staff directly involved with him who thinks he’s the bees knees.
K: You’re right that current management theory doesn’t exactly apply here. But I like that he’s like that. It makes him interesting. Fallible.
H: He clearly is supposed to be micromanaging and getting down on people. It’s all based on his fear of failure.
SG: It’s not malicious.
R: I think he really does think that he’s helpful.
K: I agree. I think he thinks he’s being helpful. He wouldn’t have even tried to be nice to Arden otherwise.
H: Spooky Grrrly and I were talking about the Peter Principle earlier, although that also was a little later than this period, as far as theory goes, I think.
K: Please explain it to the audience.
A: Tendency to rise to the level of incompetence…
P: In a well structured organization.
A: So you’re doing your job good so you get promoted, repeat until you suck, and then you don’t get promoted again but you stay there for the rest of your career sucking.
P: The book came out in 1969.
H: So it was a little later, but the idea must have been in the zeitgeist, because this aired in 1968.
R: But everybody has seen managers like that.
H: But this idea, this theory, really didn’t coalesce into the fore until the book got printed. It was considered a really new management theory.
R: My point is basically, these guys served in the British army. People below the level of management had seen the Peter Principle and wrote about it as characters. I’m just saying that the writers created this character independent of published ideas with a clear definition.
H: Anyway, let’s get back to Doctor Who… Are we ready for final thoughts?
P: Not quite yet. I think there’s a great bit to be observed by Clent standing on the paper that the Doctor needs and then saying “oh, a genius at work” in a derogatory way.
H: We haven’t really talked about the development of the human brain verses the computer theme that’s pretty strong in this story. The Doctor firmly against using computers over humanity with him suggesting that instead of a human computation being checked by computer it should be the other way around, for example.
P: Yes, he said I resent that, it’s backwards.
R: I don’t know, there’s certainly no cases of something biting us in the ass exactly that way in the news THIS WEEK. I’m looking at you Congress! Clent is kind of right – have the computer double check it, but then double check the computer.
H: In our context that’s absolutely correct, but I think the context that this was written in during the 60’s had to do with the fear of computers taking over, and making human brain power unnecessary, and the mistakes and serious problems that could cause. Because it looked like that kind of thing might be on the horizon to some people.
K: And Doctor Who has already explored this at this point in stories like the War Machines.
H: From our point of view, given that we are living in the computer or post-computer age (depending on who you believe) you’re absolutely right that computation checking is completely necessary and then having someone check the computer afterwards.
R: I get that.
K: Over half the TARDIS Project members do have experience in software testing. Just to point that out. We think about these kinds of things.
H: And about a third of them have experience in management. So final thoughts now?
A: Yeah, Victoria was a whiny baby. You guys were right last week. I guess I was just projecting what I wanted to see.
R: Her acting is not bad, it’s just really out of character of who’s she’s been up to know. This should have been a “Ransom of Red Chief” kind of story. Where the ice warriors beg the Doctor to take Victoria back.
K: She was gradually getting stronger and tougher each story and then boom, weak again.
P: Let’s see. There was one gaffe by the Doctor “There is one thing you can do to me… for me.” And then they brought up “oh, the Omega factor” and they didn’t explain it.
H: That’s just the MacGuffin that they introduced so solved the problem. Reverse the polarity, blah blah blah.
P: It was interesting to see the Doctor doing things like making paper airplanes. Well, reading about it, if not actually watching it. It was interesting to me to see the watch become a thing of power in the situation.
H: Can you explain that one?
P: I think three people touched the watch in this story. Arden has it, dies, Penley flips it over to keep it secret so it won’t see him, Victoria picks it up and uses it, and then she’s observed with it so the ice warriors know she’s signaling someone with it. It empowers whoever is using it.
SG: So, in a large part I have no idea what’s going on, because I come in and out of these things. The last thing I remember they were dealing with Yeti, and now they’re not dealing with Yeti. But they’re dealing with ice warriors. Victoria has gained a fabulous cape. The Doctor has lost his fabulous fur coat. And then there’s this chick with this really mod outfit that’s pretty fantastic.
H: All of the outfits from the base are pretty awesome.
SG: Including the white Go-go boots. Nice touch. So, minus the confusion, it was a fun episode. I actually thought for a moment they killed Jamie, though not too surprised when that was a ruse. I also would like to say that I find Jamie’s character interesting in how he started with the least amount of knowledge because of the time period they picked him up at, yet he tends to be the one who rolls with the punches the best no matter what they’re up to.
K & H: Yeah.
H:
SG: He got freaked out by a plane once, and ever since then he’s been like “what ev.”
R:
H:
R: As I said, I just didn’t find that much unintentionally hilarious in this episode. All of the humor actually really landed pretty well. Penley’s speech about “Robotized Human Mark 2” I thought was really funny. A lot of the Doctor’s exchanges with Clent I thought was really funny. Yeah, I enjoyed it, I thought that they made hay with the stuff that they setup last time. I’m looking forward to seeing the payoff next week.
K: I don’t think we’ll see the payoff for a few more weeks, but there you go. I did like this episode a lot more than last week.
H: It’s the cold medication talking.
K: Possibly. Or possibly my reaction to seeing “Cold War” only a few days ago. Modern Ice Warriors verses original Ice Warriors is an interesting parallel. But I don’t want to be spoilery here.
H: A lot of what I would talk about we’ve already talked about.
K: The penalty of going last.
Sp:
H: So go ahead.
Sp:
H: Not it wasn’t.
Sp:
H: That’s because you’re in Boston!
Sp:
H: No, you’re actually in Boston. You’re talking to us over Skype. You didn’t see the episode.
Sp:
Sp:
H: You got any more?
Sp:
H: Please say it.
Sp: Two words.
P: Boston.
Sp: Wick-ed!
H: Perfect!
K: And you Historian?
H: How can I follow that? See you next week!
