The Ice Warriors episode 4 discussion:
Sp:
H: I told you he would be contributing.
R: Isn’t he on a plane over Iowa?
H: Well, probably not Iowa, but he is on a plane.
P: Plane over the plains at least?
H: Possibly.
R: That would explain his problems with the audio.
R: That was the weirdest opener I’ve seen in a while. At the end of the last episode, pull the lever for the cliffhanger. At this week, push the lever for the cliffhanger back. Extend cliffhanger, retract cliffhanger. Just sort of lacking in drama a bit. “Shoot her… no, don’t shoot her.”
H: Because we’ve never seen anything like that before.
R: Usually we’re lucky though, and those kind of cliffhangers happen during Recons. So the lack of action seems to sort of fit in.
P: I really enjoyed the, relative for the time, high quality ice falling scenes that they generated.
H: That was an awful lot of styrofoam.
Cz: It was styrofoam!
H: Oh yes. Didn’t you see the beads in Pat’s hair?
Cz: Yes. I said to Spoo “Lots of screaming and rolling around in styrofoam” to which he replied “Or as we call it at the TARDIS Project – Friday.”
R: I gotta say, there was one moment when I think they tried to be really ambitious and failed utterly, but the rest of it really impressed me.
P: Was that the moment where the ceiling was shaking separately from the floor?
R: Yep. They tried to have a crack open in the ceiling and stuff fall out, and it was really obvious that they had 4 guys shaking a sheet with a hole in it, and one guy dumping styrofoam into the sheet. But the rest of the effects were actually really good.
E: I did spot at one point, where I think it was Victoria climbing through the hole, and her elbow bumped the wall, and you could that it was not a real wall at all.
P: It was an Ed Wood moment.
E & Cz: Huh?
H: We’re old. It was before our time too, but we’re still old. Anyway.
P: Well, photographically… I guess cinematography wise, they did a good job with handling an enormous amount of depth of field for that shot. I imagine it was uber-bright.
Sp:
A & H & R & P: No.
K: YES! This was utterly pointless episode.
H: By no means.
P: I also agree with the Historian with this.
H: I think this episode worked very well. Piggy-backing off you guys talking about the effects, there was a significant rise in the danger. The ionizer was no longer working, the glaciers were moving faster, causing all kinds of ice falls, etc etc. and it ramps up the general feeling of danger, independent of the Ice Warriors. And, as you saw in the scene between Clent and his assistant, it serious ramps up the stress for him. Which is very important to his character story.
K: They could have covered all of that in 5-10 minutes. There was just a lot of pointless running around. Victoria literally went nowhere.
P: She escape and got capture.
K: Right back into the cave of skulls again.
H: It’s tradition.
R: I’ve gotta say, I actually liked the escape through the caves. It gave Victoria at least a chance to be vaguely competent again.
H: And also the idea of her being trapped by the Ice Warrior claw ramped up the danger for the audience. Which is kind of what companions are sort of partially for.
P: I always thought it’s because the Doctor doesn’t like taking out the garbage. And he’s got plenty of room in his apartment.
R: I did think that what happened with Storr either should not have been included, or should have been introduced earlier on in the story, and threaded in a little more tightly. Specifically his alliance with the aliens.
H: The point of him encountering the aliens and getting killed was intentionally to show the ruthlessness of the aliens. They just didn’t care or weren’t interested in his political views. And it also got rid of a character who had served his purpose really. Which included making a very fun and subtle accidental joke with Jamie that I loved.
P: It also reinforced that the Doctor is more likely to have survived his encounter with the aliens because it shows that they want someone with certain knowledge. That’s what’s important to them. It shows the character motivation for the next episode.
R: I agree with all of that, I just thought that the way that they excuted it was kind of clumsy. “Oh hey, I’ll go talk to the aliens!” “Why?” “Because… they could be friendly!”
K: It was out of the blue.
H: It was.
R: What I would have liked to see was, even just in the previous episode, him saying something about the aliens. “They seem to be against the scientists too. Should we be throwing in our lot with them?” I would have like to see just a little bit of build up. As it was, it was just “my job here is done. I must move along now to another plane of existence, where I can support more metaphysical characters.”
H: Everybody did get the joke between Storr and Jamie right?
H: Storr, when he introduces himself to Jamie, says he’s a “Loyalist” to Storr that means he’s loyal to the old government and the old ways. To Jamie that means he’s loyal to Prince Charles Edward Stewart. Which is why Jamie has that reaction.
R: Yeah, there were several really funny moments in this episode. Another one that I particularly liked was “well then, you go instead.”
A: Yeah.
R: I just thought it was both a clever way of turning things around on Clent, and also a really great moment of humor. And that’s the kind of subtly I wish they’d used with the plot point around Storr.
H: Clent continues to be an awesome character. Not saying he’s a good guy…
K: No, he’s a douchebag.
H: He’s just a really great, complex character. And a really great performance by the actor I think. I loved that “I’ve come to regard you as… Penley’s replacement.”
R: I’ve come to regard you as a valuable resource in my tool box.
H: He can’t bring himself to say anything that would even slightly emotional. Which is clearly where he’s going when he starts the sentence. But because he’s Clent he has to finish it with an unemotional “Valuable member of my team.” and it was just incredibly well played.
R: Clent is just not made of people. I agree there are people like this in the real world. There are people in the real world who really don’t get people at all. Who seem to try to fake being a person.
P: Not not being a person. Just not being a person who works well with other people.
H: He’s clearly supposed to be a good manager, if we are to believe what we have been told about it him. It might that this is just too much for him to take. The fate of the world on his shoulders, etc etc.
R: “Insufficient memory to complete current tasks! Please reboot the system and try again!”
H: I love the bit between him and Garret
R: And I love that his resolve is “I have decided not to have decided yet. Decisively.”
H: Wait for the Doctor.
P: “Pinning all my hopes on the Doctor.”
R: I liked that line a lot, actually. That was one of his more human moments. He actually admits “we’ve got one hope. It’s this guy.”
H: It’s actually, from our point of view, a really good plan. From Garret’s point of view, it’s crazy.
K: I think the only one not in danger is Victoria, because leader Ice Warrior who dragged her off to the base in the first place, has a total crush on her. Which is why he hasn’t let his men kill her, even though she hasn’t proven to be much more useful than scavenger guy.
H: She actually has. Because she drew people from the base to the ship. It’s exactly what Varga said her usefulness would be. As bait.
K: No. He has the hots for her.
H: Well, can you blame him really.
K: In this story. Possibly. She has been rather scream-y and causing avalanches with her rescue cries.
R: Yeah, I was kind of amused when the leader was “you’ve killed one of my men” and she was like “I had nothing to do with it.” and yeah, she kind of did.
E: She failed at stealth.
R: She kind of succeeded magnificently at failing at stealth.
E: She was doing somewhat good at first, and then she decided to scream bloody murder. And I was like – no, you have no reason to scream.
H: Except Deb Watling had amazing screaming pipes, and they liked to take advantage of that.
E: That is true. She is a very good screamer.
H: So, final thoughts?
Cz: Oh no, the styrofoam is gonna get me!
K: Anything from Spoo?
Cz: Spoo’s gone! His battery died.
H: He’ll be back next week.
E: Not bad. This is a pretty good episode. The soundtrack was pretty decent. I don’t have very much to add. I did enjoy it this week.
A: I enjoyed it. I don’t have much else specific to say. Always fun to see moving pictures.
E: Indeed.
A: The phone dial on the computer made me laugh.
E: I did like how he pulled out the glass of water and everyone was just like “excuse me”
H: He used a super scientific chemical machine to make a glass of water because he’s thirsty, and that’s Patrick Troughton’s Doctor in a nutshell.
E: And that’s why he’s become my current favorite Doctor.
P: I thought the subplot of trying to determine the engine type showed Victoria’s relatively technological age well. It’s not something we often address in Doctor Who, but you are the sum of your previous experiences before you meet the Doctor, and that doesn’t often change much for a companion.
H: Anything else?
P: No.
R:
H: Is that all you got?
R: That’s all I need. Seriously, they gun Storr down and it’s like time to go inside, and they’re like
H: Okay.
K: I think they could have trimmed about half of this episode. Not much happened between point A and point B. I felt like it was over too soon because I was expecting a lot more… plot. Lots of rolling around in styrofoam and running around in icecaves. What the hell were ice caves doing there, anyway. They weren’t there in the previous episodes.
H: So, I could come up with a plausible explainations…
K: Glaciers moving in?
H: That would be the explanation. But a criticism of this story that many people have aired is that it’s hard to understand where everything is in relation to everything else. And I think that’s valid.
K: That’s it.
H: I really enjoyed this episode, and actually I’m enjoying this story a heck of a lot more than I expected to. It’s a lot more fun with a lot more interesting stuff in it than I remembered it, because it’s been years since I’ve seen the tape
R: You should be.
